Debunking popular myths about Jesus

Since we’re in the Christmas season, I thought it might be good to debunk some popular anti-Christian urban legends (usually coming from Jesus-mythers) that Jesus’ story was borrowed from other ancient gods.

These short videos by InspiringPhilosophy should quickly dispense with these fabrications by way of summary explanations. 

Most of these comparisons start by comparing an ancient god supposedly born on December 25 (Jesus probably wasn’t actually born on this date), an alleged virgin birth, 12 disciples, or other supposed connections with the Christian Gospel story. You’ll see in the videos that almost all of these comparisons either cannot be proven, are blatantly false, or made up long after the time of Christ.

Jesus vs. Mithra

The first myth we will look at is that Jesus’ story was copied from the Persian god, Mithra (There’s actually two other versions of Mithra: the Roman Mystery Cult of Mithra and the Vedic Mithra). You will see in the video that none of these versions actually match the story of Christ life and ministry at all.

Jesus vs. Horus

The next clip debunks the myth that Jesus’ story was based on the Egyptian god, Horus. The video shows this one is a complete fabrication.

Jesus vs. Krishna

This clip debunks the idea that Jesus’ story was copied from the Hindu god, Krishna. What’s funny about this one is that the copying could be the other way around. The points that seem similar to Christ’s birth and life were actually legends invented later by Hindu scholars who copied them from Christianity as late as the fourth to sixth century AD.

Other fabrications

If you want to see other versions of these same myths, you can watch Jesus vs. Attis  or Jesus vs. Serapas or Jesus vs. Dionysus by clicking on the links. The point is, these allegations are a desperate attempt to discredit Jesus Christ but what they really do is show an inept understanding of history and religion.

About Mel Wild

God's favorite (and so are you), a son and a father, happily married to the same beautiful woman for 39 years. We have three incredible adult children. My passion is pursuing the Father's heart in Christ and giving it away to others. My favorite pastime is being iconoclastic and trailblazing the depths of God's grace. I'm also senior pastor of Cornerstone Church in Wisconsin.
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167 Responses to Debunking popular myths about Jesus

  1. Arkenaten says:

    They do have one thing in common, though. They are all works of fiction.

    ps … still a couple of comments over on the other post you have not responded to because they are in moderation.

  2. Florian says:

    Thanks for putting this together Mel! Sadly, I’ve encountered many people who have bought into these lies – especially hurt Christians, but also young people who are put off by organised religion and don’t take the time to do their research…

  3. John Branyan says:

    Skeptics need to spend all their energy disproving the resurrection. Everything else is a waste of time. Early, historical evidence that Jesus resurrection was faked will destroy Christianity (and civilization as we know it but…sometimes the truth hurts). I’ve suggested this to the heathen many times. They usually ignore me.

    Even if there are similarities between religious beliefs that doesn’t prove ALL religious beliefs are false. In fact, similarities in other areas of divergent thought lead us to conclude those beliefs are probably reliable.

    When there is philosophical overlap among religions, atheists scream, “They’re copying each other! It’s a lie!” When the resurrection is recorded only in the Bible, atheists scream, “They’re the only ones telling this story! It’s a lie!” – You can’t reason with skeptics.

    • mrsmcmommy says:

      Yep–last year our pet Atheists spent several months demanding that we explain why there are “so many different religions” and why they “don’t agree with each other.” (“There should be a single world-religion!” they insisted, just because.)

      That is, until you wrote a post about Jesus. Then, suddenly, the same Atheists wanted to know “one, single original thing Jesus said or did.” Naturally, I asked, which is it? Are all religions wildly different, or are they all so similar that Jesus basically copied from them all?

      Somewhat related: have you looked at the similarities between Abraham Lincoln and John F Kennedy? It’s kind of weird! I hope people 3000 years from now don’t think JFK was completely fictional.
      https://www.thoughtco.com/the-lincoln-kennedy-coincidences-3299456

      • Arkenaten says:

        You are correct in this aspect ,Amanda. As there have been a great many very human and very ordinary Presidents, so too has there been a great many very human and very ordinary prophets, most claiming some sort of hotline to the ”Almighty”.
        Invariably they have all been found wanting and usually wanting profits.

      • Mel Wild says:

        Yep–last year our pet Atheists spent several months demanding that we explain why there are “so many different religions” and why they “don’t agree with each other.” (“There should be a single world-religion!” they insisted, just because.)
        That is, until you wrote a post about Jesus.

        You’ve made this point before but it deserves elaborating on here: If God exists then we would expect humankind to intuit and even experience Him in many different ways, which should logically lead to similar stories and experiences throughout all religions. There would also be similar wisdom and truths expressed in all religions. As Paul said to the Athenians in Acts 17, their own poets had said that “we are His offspring” and that “in Him we live and move and have our being.” Paul was connecting their religious experience with the reality of Christ. Then he says that God overlooked their ignorance in times past because we were all meant to seek after Him and find Him, and now Jesus has explained Him (Matt.11:27; John 1:18), proving He was who He said He was by being raised from the dead. So, we also see Jesus as unique among all the stories because He actually knew God and came from God.

        Btw, I remember hearing the Lincoln-Kennedy thing when I was a kid. It’s pretty freaky!

        • mrsmcmommy says:

          Makes perfect sense to me, Mel. Only a dishonest person (who’s not really interested in thinking through these issues) would suggest every human must see things EXACTLY the same way, as some sort of evidence that God exists…

          And only an even more dishonest person would demand total “agreement” one day, and then turn around and demand examples of “uniqueness” for Christianity the next day. The anti-Theists really need to decide what’s going to convince them and stick to that story. Otherwise it kind of looks like they don’t want to be convinced.

        • Mel Wild says:

          We know in police investigation that if every story is exactly the same, the suspects are colluding and lying. Exact handwriting proves a forgery, etc. Ironically, it’s in the differences that show authenticity. The bottom is what you said. They don’t want to be convinced. That’s why I don’t write to them, but to people who actually have honest questions.

        • mrsmcmommy says:

          Yep! Stick to your guns! I’m raising small children right now. (Number Four is due in about five weeks.) And dealing with the Anti-Theists is very, very similar. I say what I mean and mean what I say. One warning, then a follow-through.

          I have no problem with honest questions. But I don’t abide bratty behavior. When you start getting demanding and unreasonable, you go to your room. 🙂

        • Mel Wild says:

          Good advice. 🙂

  4. Arkenaten says:

    Trying to show comparisons with other gods is an exercise some might enjoy.
    But the real peach is the fact that the resurrection of the biblical god-man, Jesus the Nazarene didn’t even happen in the first place, so why on earth bother with other gods?

    • Mel Wild says:

      But the real peach is the fact that the resurrection of the biblical god-man, Jesus the Nazarene didn’t even happen in the first place, so why on earth bother with other gods?

      And you’ve proven this claim how?

      • Arkenaten says:

        I don’t have to prove it.
        I am not making the claim it really happened.
        Dead men don’t come back to life. That’s a biological reality.

        • Mel Wild says:

          Yes, you do! You said the resurrection didn’t happen. That is a claim. You must back your statement with evidence.

        • Arkenaten says:

          It is in answer to your claim that it did.
          So it goes like this:
          ”If Christ be not risen then our faith is a lie,” …. More or less.

          I cry : ”Bullshit! Where is your evidence?”
          You say: ”It’s in the bible.”
          I say, ”Really?” smile then fall about laughing.
          You tell me I don’t know what I am talking about because in the bible it says there were 500 witnesses.
          I say how do you know there were 500? Who counted? How can you know it is true?
          You say, because it is in the bible.
          By now I am laughing my head off, and so are several billion non -Christians … and even John Dominic Crossan is smiling.

        • Mel Wild says:

          Your fictitious dialogue is wrong but, again, the question is not my claim. You claim that the resurrection did not happen. What is your proof?

        • Arkenaten says:

          You mean evidence, surely?

  5. Scottie says:

    I think Mel you should look at this as you like videos. It really does simply explain much of the borrowed myths. Hugs

    • Scottie says:

      Sorry Mel, in trying to grab the correct video, I got the wrong one. This is the one I wanted to share. Hugs

    • Scottie says:

      You can delete mine, I doubt your viewers are interested in it. However the Aron Ra one has a lot of great and researched information. Hugs

      • Mel Wild says:

        Hi Scottie. I started to watch it but there were so many wrong conclusions about what he said, I stopped. I’ve heard a lot of these arguments and I do agree with some of his data, it’s the conclusions he makes that don’t follow in my view. He’s actually arguing against some dogmatic Fundamentalist view he was taught (which I would disagree with a lot of it, also). Anyway, thanks for your gracious comments. Hugs back to you.

        • Scottie says:

          Sadly you did not watch to the point where he diagrams the timelines out. That is rather the proof of which legends and myths came first. OH well, enjoy your season, regardless of what reasons you give it. Hugs

        • Mel Wild says:

          I will try to watch more of it when I have time. 🙂 I did see the timelines.

  6. Nan says:

    You know, the thing about belief or disbelief in religion (more than anything else) is that anyone can come along and dispute, deny, discredit, disregard, disagree, and dismiss just about anything that’s put forth on either side. Yet it changes nothing.

    No matter how many videos, books, quotes, testimonies, or discussions are offered to counteract the other person’s opinion, rarely do they have any effect.

    Yet we continue because it seems our human nature is simply unable to “let sleeping dogs lie.”

    • Mel Wild says:

      That’s very true. It’s only when we’re open to change that we will change, no matter what the truth may be. Otherwise, our mind is like a closed trapdoor. Most of these videos, quotes, books are to debunk attacks against Christianity that confuse and cause unnecessary doubt in believers. I’m not under any illusion of convincing anyone who is not open.

      • Nan says:

        Just as many on “the other side” are intended to debunk what Christianity puts forth. But I do understand your motivation … 🙂

      • Arkenaten says:

        Actually, with the advent of the internet reaching a huge audience and unprecedented access to previously unobtainable or unknown material I would imagine there are huge inroads being made into what were once considered sacrosanct, off limits areas of inquiry for a great many religious and non religious people alike.

        Much of what was accepted as fact and taken at face value has been shown to be fallacious.
        Consider me. I never once doubted the historicity of certain biblical characters even if back then I laughed at the miraculous nonsense. And I am an atheist, for goodness sake. Now, however, through research,I have learned that a character such as Moses is simply a work of fiction.
        I discovered biblical archaeology:, and what people like Kenyan found out about Jericho.
        I learned about the Human Genome Project, and Francis Collins and how his amazing work finally trashed any silly notions of Adam and Eve and any original breeding pair of humans, thus destroying any claims of Original Sin.
        Such research encouraged me to go back and finally read the bible – all of it – and start to cross-reference as much as I could – hence my old KJV from Sunday School is littered with red felt tip marks.In fact, everything I have read and researched over these past few years has convinced me even more that we are simply dealing with a story and a regime of religious cultural indoctrination that has no basis in historical fact.

        For me it hasn’t been much of a shock as there never was any real emotional attachment.
        However, I have discovered that for a great many, the realization of that such firmly held beliefs have little or no basis in fact have caused and still cause a considerable amount of emotional upheaval.
        But this is changing … thank goodness.

  7. Wally Fry says:

    Nicely done as usual, Mel. Even the scoffers don’t actually believe the myths they go on about. I fact, I suspect they believe very little of the garbage they spout and repeat over and over and over an over…..aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand over some more. Their only objective as rabid atheist attack dogs is to wear down the opposition until they give in. You keep up the good work here.

    • Arkenaten says:

      And as a Young Earth Creationist what are your objectives, Wally?
      You will find no favour among those Christians who are at least open to evolution.
      Respected theologians like NT Wright will have no truck with Creationist nonsense.
      So your ill-informed smear tactics will merely have the ”Proper Christians” rolling their eyes while fervently praying that all you Ussherites would quietly fade away or grow up and learn a little genuine science.

      • Wally Fry says:

        Look, Ark, grown ups are talking here. Go back to your room. Yep, I am a hard core, Bible thumping fundamentalist. So, hurling that name at me like an insult really isn’t going to hurt my feelings at all LOL. I would imagine, that if the “proper Christians” have a beef with me, they will say so. I don’t suspect they need help from frothing at the mouth rabid atheist attack dogs. You words there are nothing more than you attempting to hide the abject emptiness of your supposedly content free world view behind diversions. If Mel has a problem with me, he will say so. You? I frankly don’t care what you, the decons, or the “proper Christians” think, as I am not hear to serve and glorify any of them. Meanwhile, you are a colossal waste of time, as Mel is certainly coming to see. Peace

        • Arkenaten says:

          Yes, fine. But as a Young Earth Creationist, what are your objectives, Wally?

        • Wally Fry says:

          Ummmm…gosh. That’s a stupid question. I don’t have any objectives based upon on any beliefs regarding the age of the earth. I you were not such a Biblical illiterate, you would know that. Perhaps you should take lessons from Tildeb on how to properly frame a question? LOL…that was fun!

        • Arkenaten says:

          I simply asked what were your goals as a young earth creationist.
          If I asked a similar question of Mel, (sans YEC of course) as a preacher he could tell me directly what his goals were as a Christian.

        • Mel Wild says:

          If I asked a similar question of Mel, (sans YEC of course) as a preacher he could tell me directly what his goals were as a Christian.

          Ark, again, you are lying and misrepresenting what I said. I told you that I’ve written on it extensively on this blog, I’ve written a whole book on it! And I have told you straight-out before, which is why I wasn’t going to waste my time going through it with you again.

        • Arkenaten says:

          Why am I lying?
          Of course you have goals as a preacher and as a christian – and I presume primary of these is to ”save” (sic) as many souls as you can?
          How on earth is this in any way telling lies?

        • Mel Wild says:

          You lied because you said I haven’t answered the question. But now, you are even changing your comment! Honestly, Ark, your erratic behavior makes me wonder about you. Maybe you don’t know when you’re lying. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.

        • Arkenaten says:

          This opening comment from Wally on this particular thread was dominated by his statement that:

          Their only objective as rabid atheist attack dogs is to wear down the opposition until they give in.

          Which, in my case , is not true at all.
          I then replied asking Wally what his objectives (goal) are as a YEC.
          The thread developed from this.
          Where have I lied?

        • Wally Fry says:

          You are a bald faced liar, Ark. That is clearly your goal. In fact, you pat yourself on the back. along with all of the other attack dogs when you win a “convert.” You are NOT atheist. You are clearly ANTI theist. Good grief, at least have the proper testosterone levels to claim your own beliefs.I do. Mel does. What’t your problem? Um..sounds like you might not really be sure about your beliefs.

        • Arkenaten says:

          In all the time I have blogged only two people have mentioned that I was in any way an influence on their deconversion.

          One, a chap in the States by the name of Luke, who became a special mate and we exchanged emails and books. My family and I even have an open invite to stay with him if ever I am in the US.

          And another , whose name I forget, mentioned something about rethinking his faith after reading a post I did ( it was probably about Moses and Exodus.

          And that, as far as I know is it.
          Yes of course I am atheist you nit-wit and I am also anti-theist.
          The world would be a far better place without any religion.

          The Twin Towers would still be standing if religion had died out 50 years ago.

          Imagine what might still be standing if it dies out within fifty years from now?

        • Wally Fry says:

          Hey. as long as we are talking about world views, perhaps you would be willing to explain why you support the execution of all the religious and intellectuals, and the forced relocation of all the city dwellers to collective farms to work until they die?

        • Mel Wild says:

          That’s simple, Wally. Because Ark embraces the same anti-religious ideology of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, and Mau Zedong. All of these despots thought the world would be better off without religion, just like Ark does. And the 20th Century has shown us what happens when these ideologues gain absolute power. Yeah, meet the new boss, much more evil and wicked than the old boss!

        • Wally Fry says:

          Exactly Mel. But watch the hollering as the objection is made that Pol Pot does not represent atheism. Yet Muslim terrorists clearly represent those who follow Jesus

        • Arkenaten says:

          Are you having a mental breakdown, Wally?
          I really hope there are some Christians reading along who ask you to explain that comment.
          This type of behaviour seems to be on the up and up with the more fundamental leaning Christians.

        • Wally Fry says:

          Great. I am a mental case. Point to ark. Now what is your answer as to why you support those things?

        • Arkenaten says:

          What would lead you to believe I support those things?

        • Wally Fry says:

          Obviously you do. The question on the table is why.

        • Arkenaten says:

          Why do you think it is obvious I support these things?

        • Wally Fry says:

          Pol Pot did. He was atheist. You are atheist. Enough said. That’s logic according Ark

        • Arkenaten says:

          Aah … I see what you mean.
          Jesus the Nazarene was a Jew so why aren’t you?

        • Arkenaten says:

          [https://youtu.be/kMsrE-9CLFg]

        • Mel Wild says:

          This is one of the many reasons why you are moderated, Ark. If you make any more comments like this you will be blocked from this site.

        • John Branyan says:

          For what it’s worth, Wally – Diggety-Dug-Dug completely jumped off the rails awhile back on my blog. In order to keep his inane narrative going, he denied the existence of order and reason. Really!

          All the hardcore “rationalist” do it at some point. Nan won’t admit the stuff she wrote in her book is true! Ask her!

          I’m bringing it up because I think you (and Mel) should stop paying attention to people who refuse to make formal declarations of truth. What’s the point in discussing the atheist point of view when the atheist doesn’t feel obligated to confess that point of view is true? How can you reason with a person who doesn’t believe in reason?

          I haven’t directly responded to Arkey-Poo for many weeks. That hasn’t affected his comments in the slightest. He keeps saying the same things. He’s going to make the same statements whether you interact with him or not.

        • Wally Fry says:

          John I have not messed with Ark in months. But on days off all week and got bored lol

        • Mel Wild says:

          Yes of course I am atheist you nit-wit and I am also anti-theist.
          The world would be a far better place without any religion.
          The Twin Towers would still be standing if religion had died out 50 years ago.

          Exactly. You prove again that Hitler’s anti-religious sentiments live on! Oh, by the ways….over a 100 million people, including six million Jews and tens of thousands of children would’ve lived in the 20th Century had there been no anti-religious idealism to use as a pretense. Why don’t you ask the Jews who went through that period in Europe what they think of your anti-religious ideals. And I forgot to mention, anti-religious Hitler also killed gypsies, homosexuals, and intellectuals. Stalin blew up churches and pretty much killed anyone who disagreed with him.

          So, Ark, if you’re so righteous now, why did you decide to embrace the same anti-religious ideology of Hitler, Stalin, and these other despots?

        • Arkenaten says:

          Judaism was responsible for Christianity which was in turn responsible for Islam.

          If there was no Judaism then there would not have been a holocaust, you twit.

          Yet you seem unable to correlate.

          That is history, but nothing has been learned, apparently.
          Look at Syria.

          And this is why secular humanism is a democratic society is the better way for humans to live.
          And most certainly better than any society built on religion.

        • Mel Wild says:

          Islam nor any other religious people didn’t slaughter six million Jews and experiment on them in the Holocaust, Ark. It was done by an anti-religious despot who believed the world would be better off without religion. Calling me names doesn’t make for a convincing argument. Just humble yourself and admit this is true and apologize to the Jews for this atrocity.

          Maybe someday you’ll stop making fallacious arguments to prop up your worldview and get some sense and realize its evil HUMANS who did this. Whether they use the pretense of religion or anti-religion, the source is the same.

          If you are so deluded that you think society would be better off without religion, maybe you should go back and read 20th Century history and find out what that looked like before you say such ignorant things.

        • Arkenaten says:

          Actually it was done by a confessed Christian who was also a maniac.

          Yes of course it was evil humans who committed these acts. Including the extermination of up to 100 million North and South American Indian. However, the perpetrators of these acts did not believe they were doing evil – quite the opposite. And they just happened to be ( in the main) Christian whose specified goal was to deliver the land in the name of their god. And convert the heathen savages along the way. And if they couldn’t convert …well … we know what happened. And this is what religion does to people.

          Tell me, why are you s afraid of the possibility of a world without gods?

          What is so horrible about the thought of a secular humanist world?

        • Mel Wild says:

          Actually it was done by a confessed Christian who was also a maniac.

          Wrong, that’s a popular anti-theist myth. Hitler was NO Christian! He mocked and hated religion as I have already proven by the quotes I gave you. These quotes were from Hitler himself.

        • Arkenaten says:

          And would you like me to provide far more quotes that show he was a christian?
          Do you know what was on the belt buckle of every German Soldier?
          One can be a Christian AND a maniac you know?
          There are numerous current examples of Christians claiming they heard the voice of their god and then afterwards set about dismembering or brutally murdering their family or kids.

          You think all Christians are sane?
          How about David Wood who bashed his dad’s head in with a hammer … and then found god!

        • Mel Wild says:

          And would you like me to provide far more quotes that show he was a christian?
          Do you know what was on the belt buckle of every German Soldier?

          Most quotes I’ve seen were not from Hitler himself, or they were his proganda in the 1930’s when he was busy deceiving the public. Publically, Hitler was a scheming liar. Privately, he gave his true feelings about Christianity and religion.

          Christianity will “shrivel before the inexorable advance of science.”
          “When understanding of the universe has become widespread… then the Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.”

          And do you think a belt buckle makes someone a Christian? Haha! Then all Americans are Christians because it says, “In God we trust” on our money.

          You think all Christians are sane?
          How about David Wood who bashed his dad’s head in with a hammer … and then found god!

          David Wood bashed his dad in the head AS AN ATHEIST! The “sanity” came after he became a Christian! Sheesh, Ark. Nothing like digging yourself deeper in a hole. You should quit before it gets worse for you.

        • Arkenaten says:

          Then you obviously do not know Mein Kampf.
          He comes across as a Schizophrenic maniac, but this doesn’t mean he did not believe he also considered himself to be a Christian, even if he despised and ridiculed the church.
          As I mentioned, consider those people who truly believed they heard the voice of the Christian god and then went and mutilated and murdered their kids and/or families. There are plenty of cases.
          How about Jim Jones?
          No, he is still not sane. Have you ever actually listened to his testimony?

        • Mel Wild says:

          I have read Mein Kampf. That was written early in his life while in prison. Hitler was both deluded and purposefully deceptive. His true anti-Christian/anti-religious hatred came to full fruition by the late thirties. He actually was an anti-Christian who, under the guise of feigning Christian beliefs, duped a whole nation and the whole world until his true nature was finally uncovered.

          But you still don’t get the point. All you are doing by bringing up examples like Jim Jones, or others in Church history, selectively picking sociopathic nut-jobs to try to paint all Christianity with this brush. But we can just as easily point to atheist and anti-Christian nut-jobs who do the same thing, which is what I’ve pointed out here. If you cannot see how fallacious your argument is, there’s nothing I can see that will help you see it.

        • Wally Fry says:

          If there was no Judaism then there would not have been a holocaust, you twit.

          That statement is fascinating. Wow. So it was okay because the Jews were a religion. Good work Ark

        • Arkenaten says:

          Sorry , Wally, not following this.
          I am not quite sure what you are alluding to here.
          Why don’t you take a five minute break, go and get yourself a blow job, and then come back and we can resume when you have a clear head?

        • Wally Fry says:

          Ark. You said the Holocaust only happened because Judaism existed. Why do you support the extermination of the Jews?

        • Arkenaten says:

          Why would you believe I would support this, Wally?
          Have you had that blow job yet?
          You still sound a bit wound up.

        • Mel Wild says:

          Good-bye, Ark. I warned you.

        • Mel Wild says:

          Wally, I just banned Ark from this site. He wouldn’t respect my wishes and stop with the vulgar comments after I warned him. I think I’ve put up with this long enough.

        • Wally Fry says:

          Hey Stone head, again you show the absolute depths of your Biblical illiteracy. Ugh. Mel doesn’t save. I don’t save. Jesus saves. Even you, Ark. Just sayin.

        • Wally Fry says:

          Oh…my goals a Christian? As a follower of Jesus Christ? I am sorry, you confused me. You asked me what my goals as a YEC believer are. Don’t they teach English down there? Ask what you mean, Ark, not what will trap some moron into saying things you can pounce on. Why would my goals be any different than Mel’s? I don’t have goals. I serve Jesus. Ark, you have read my blog, your question is pointless. Obviously, you HAVE a point, and are building toward some rage filled condemnation of me. Sheesh, cut out the middle man and just hurl it.

        • Arkenaten says:

          I did ask what I meant , Wally.
          I was referring to your objective (goal) as a YEC believer. Your approach to your faith is bound to be different to others, if only slightly.

        • Wally Fry says:

          I have no objectives specific to any beliefs regarding the age of the earth. Question answered. Your turn. What is the actual point you want to make here. Just make it for Pete’s sake. LOL. Look, if you want to insult me, just do it. You know by now I don’t give two happy hoots what you think.

          Mel. make ark happy. Tell me am a Bible thumping, YEC fundamentalist and you want me to go away.

          That’s his point here, and any idiot can see it. He want’s you and I to get in a fight.

        • Arkenaten says:

          You opened the thread with a disparaging comment about rabid atheist attack dogs wearing Christians down.

          This is palpable nonsense.
          But it seems that your objective is to vilify me and other non-believers simply because you are unable to defend what you claim to believe.
          Who could ever forget you calling my dad Satan? My mum still laughs about that when I ask to speak to the ”Old Devil” when I phone home.

          For what it’s worth, I have no illusions about converting any religious person I interact with on the blogs. None whatsoever.
          However, I am mindful of fence sitters who might be reading along and always shake my head a little when you go off like a bottle of fizzy cool drink.

        • Wally Fry says:

          No…what I stated is patently true, and the strongest evidence is your own behavior. Now, run off and tell all of the other atheist how Wally went nuts again.

        • Arkenaten says:

          Went nuts again? When were you ever not nuts?
          Go and hug your Ken Ham doll or feed your pet toy T-Rex, you ‘ll feel a lot better.

        • Wally Fry says:

          Ohhhhhhhhh…wow. That’s powerful argumentation. I renounce my faith. Ba ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!

        • Arkenaten says:

          Shouldn’t you be wooing snakes and speaking in tongues about now, Wally?

        • Wally Fry says:

          Wow the absolute intellectual prowess of that leaves me in awe. Wally is a snake waving moron so Christianity is false. Meanwhile back to my question?

        • Arkenaten says:

          Well, yes, this sect ( as they all are) of Christianity is obviously false. But it is based on biblical interpretation isn’t it?
          I replied. I asked why you think I would believe such things?

        • Wally Fry says:

          Lol what sect are you blabbering about? I don’t wave snakes you rock head.

        • Arkenaten says:

          Oh, sorry. You are a YEC Pentecostal then?
          Do you talk to pet toy dinosaurs then?

    • Mel Wild says:

      Thanks Wally. It’s very hard to know what they actually believe. But, hey, if it’s on the Internet and you sound like you know a couple of things it must be true. That is, until you’re challenged with the facts… 🙂

      • Wally Fry says:

        Yeah, facts are a booger bear LOL.

      • Arkenaten says:

        It’s quite easy to discover what I believe. Simpy ask me.

        • Mel Wild says:

          Haha. Asking you questions is a grueling experience, as experience has taught me.

        • Arkenaten says:

          Then ask me a question based on honesty and integrity and stop trying to play gotcha or switch and bait.
          I will always respond in a similar fashion, of this you have my word.

        • Mel Wild says:

          No, Ark, you usually respond by diversion, asking me totally unrelated questions about what I believe instead. I don’t ask “gotcha” questions, I ask question to find out what you actually believe because you make so many sweeping accusations, and so many are fallacious, as I’ve pointed out to you.

          For instance, you keep asking for “evidence.” After a long drawn-out process, I finally got you to tell me that you mean physical or scientific evidence. Thus, I also found out you believe in scientism. But it was a long and frustrating process to get you to admit this. So, if you don’t like these probing questions, you shouldn’t make your sweeping dogmatic statements in the first place.

        • Arkenaten says:

          But you know what I believe for heavens’ sake!
          I am an atheist and I believe in democracy and secular humanism.
          I consider the world would be far better off without religion of any sort.
          I beleive indoctrinating children with religion to be tantamount to child abuse.
          I am an almost-vegan, and abhor the use of animals for food.
          I support Liverpool FC and I listen to Jimi Hendrix and progressive Jazz.

          What is so difficult to understand about that?

        • Mel Wild says:

          But you know what I believe for heavens’ sake!

          I know now after trying forever to get a coherent thought out of you. You are an angry anti-Christian who embraces scientism. And scientism was the religion of most despots in the 20th Century. You hold the same basic beliefs of Hitler, Stalin, Mao Zedong, Pol Pot, and now, Kim Jong-un. They all believed (or believe) that the world would be better off without religion and that science will eventually make religion disappear as an absurdity.

          For instance, Hitler expected Christianity to “shrivel before the inexorable advance of science.”(Michael Rissmann, Hitlers Gott: Vorsehungsglaube und Sendungsbewusstsein des deutschen Diktators, Zürich, Pendo, 2001.) In “Table Talk” he is reported as saying: “When understanding of the universe has become widespread… then the Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.”(Hitler’s Table Talk, stenographic notes of Hitler’s private conversations, London, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1953.)

          That sound exactly like you, Ark! And what did Hitler do with all the beautiful Jewish children? Right, no hypocrisy here!

        • Arkenaten says:

          You hold the same basic beliefs of Hitler, Stalin, Mao Zedong, Pol Pot, and now, Kim Jong-un.

          Ah, this I shall cherish, and definitely worthy of a post all on it’s own!
          Absolutely delightful and informs the reader about your character more than I could ever hope for. Well done, Mel.
          You are a real gentleman.

          🙂

          Watch the press as they say.

        • Mel Wild says:

          Yes, Ark, it shows the absolute absurdity and hypocrisy of your selective use of history when you and your ilk try to paint all Christianity with the same brush, only giving the worst aspects of Christian history. I’m just turning your argument on its pointy little head. How do you like it? You love to dish it out but you seem a bit thin-skinned when the tables are turned.

          So, yes, we can put this comment with all your poisonous and fallacious anti-Christian comments for all to see!

        • Arkenaten says:

          There are NO GOOD aspects of Christianity as it is all based on false premise.

          Come read my latest post and offer some insight from a theological perspective.
          I would be very interested to see if you were able to make any sort of defense.

          Me thin-skinned!
          Lol… Oh, my dear Mel, how you miss the mark … nay, miss the target even!
          Tuck your shirt into your trousers, blow your nose and stop sniveling.

        • Mel Wild says:

          There are NO GOOD aspects of Christianity as it is all based on false premise.

          And your deluded and irrational beliefs are built on a foolish premise. And, no, I won’t go to your blog because your fallacious opinion means nothing to me, Ark. I waste enough of my time having to deal with it here.

          You know, you shouldn’t be throwing stones when you live a fragile glass house on these things, Ark. Anti-religious scientism has a dark history and a very poor track record when in control of governments, as the 20th Century has proven to us.

          So, using your fallacious logic, I could say there is NO GOOD anti-religious form of government because they all lead to despotic dictatorships that are the most oppressive governments to human rights of all. And I can back this up with data because more murders and atrocities were committed in the name of anti-religious atheism in the 20th century than in all history combined.

          See how this works, Ark. I can be just as fallacious and selective as you. And can even give you quotes to back it. Maybe you should actually think before you make your ridiculous sweeping statements.

        • Nan says:

          Mel … as the semi-silent bystander (occasional referee?) … that comment to Ark (You are an angry anti-Christian who embraces scientism) was, IMO, uncalled for. You may not like some of the things he says about your beliefs, but consider … he’s an anti-theist/athiest so why wouldn’t he?

          But your comment to him was very much out of character for a man in your position.

          Further, you repeatedly use “scientism” as if it’s a dirty word when it’s frequently defined as “the belief that the investigative methods of the physical sciences are applicable or justifiable in all fields of inquiry.” You feel your god answers the questions that science cannot. Others feel just the opposite. Neither side is 100% accurate.

        • John Branyan says:

          Hey Nan!

          What a relief to be free from the shackles of Christianity! Now you can wag your finger at Mel for not following (in your humble opinion) Christian protocol without technically being a hypocrite.

          Quick question: Is it 100% accurate to say, “Neither side is 100% accurate”?

        • Mel Wild says:

          Nan, with all due respect. What I said is true about Ark in particular. I speak from experience. It’s not at all because he disagrees with me. I have had to moderate very angry and vulgar comments that don’t deserve any respect (which is why he remains in moderated mode). But I have also let him make about ten times as many comments as anyone else here, so I am being as gracious as I can be with him.. But Ark probably deserves to be blocked, frankly. I can see why many sites do. He shows no respect whatsoever for anyone who dares challenge his sweeping accusations.

          And scientism is not a dirty word; it’s a self-refuting naturalistic worldview. But many think it’s a scientific statement. It’s not. It says that science gives us the only real knowledge there is, which cannot be proven by scientific method. And even if I cannot prove God, you are still left with a lot of very important questions that science cannot answer.

        • Nan says:

          I appreciate your response. But I do have to ask “why?” when you write: But I have also let him make about ten times as many comments as anyone else here. It’s apparent (at least to me) that neither of you are going to change your minds …

        • Mel Wild says:

          Your right about that. I never dreamed of changing his mind. I let him comment because Ark is a bully and it shows that believers have nothing to be afraid of with this kind of combative and fallacious nonsense. My patience is wearing thin, though. I think we’ve probably seen enough.

        • Mel Wild says:

          One last point from your previous comment, Nan:

          But your comment to him was very much out of character for a man in your position.

          I would respectfully disagree with this statement. Jesus had nothing but contempt for the hypocritical Pharisees who bullied people that tried to come to Him. He called them a “brood of vipers,” “white-washed tombs…and worse. But Jesus also had nothing but grace and mercy for those who asked for help and honestly were seeking answers. I am not out of line with what Jesus would do Himself. Ark is a bully who tries to intimidate believers by making his fallacious sweeping accusations. His behavior deserves nothing but contempt. On the other hand, I hope you will also find me gracious with those who have honest questions or respectfully disagree with me.

        • Nan says:

          It’s just that from where I sit, Mel, and regarding your position as a promoter/pastor of the Christian faith, I would think you would either (1) follow through on your statements to discontinue the conversation since it was going nowhere, or (2) stop debating/arguing with someone you know is not going to be convinced.

          As I’ve said before, Mel. It’s your blog. But as a visitor who enjoys reading both pro and con discussions related to Christianity (even though you know my position), I just feel showing “contempt” is out of character for someone in your position.

          With all due respect.

        • Mel Wild says:

          Thanks Nan. Good points. I will consider what to do. If I let Ark continue, he will just keep posting hundreds of comments that I have to moderate. If I block him, I’m sure he’ll go off will say I did it because I’m afraid of what he says. Not that I care what he thinks but it’s still a consideration.

          I do appreciate the respectful way you dialogue with me.

    • Mel Wild says:

      Interesting. Sounds like he had a negative experience with a rather legalistic and controlling local church which, admittedly, is too often the case. I speak against the same sort of thing all the time.

      I would probably agree with some of what he said about Jesus. I would need to read more about his beliefs. But I just don’t think you can do it apart from relationship with other believers. Again, the one post isn’t enough to formulate an accurate picture.

      • Arkenaten says:

        From those who have interacted with, his experience seems typical in many ways.
        His view of the character Jesus the Nazarene is refreshing though, I’ll give you that.

  8. mrsmcmommy says:

    I appreciate the respectful way you allow Nan to get away with her double standards, too, Mel. (You won’t get credit for your patience from them. So I, as a Theist, will tell you I’ve noticed and applaud your gentleness.)

    Personally, I’m tired of Atheists demanding to be treated with Christian morality, but not holding jerks like Ark to the same expectation. It’s cowardice not to call out one of the other Atheists, no matter how rudely he behaves. (“He’s not Christian! So he doesn’t have to act like one… But PASTORS have to follow the Bible while we rip it to shreds.” Truly amazing.)

    Ark isn’t the only one who makes a good example of Atheist futility. But, again, I appreciate the gentle way you let the rest of the group be examples without hurting their feelings too much in the process…

  9. john zande says:

    That’s simple, Wally. Because Ark embraces the same anti-religious ideology of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, and Mau Zedong.

    Pot was a Buddhist, and Hitler was a Christian. Indeed, he thought himself a very, very good Christian, and so too did church leaders, including:

    Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber
    Bishop Hans Meiser
    Catholic Hierarchy of Austria
    Cardinal Theodor Innitzer
    Fulda German Bishops’ Conference
    Bishop Rackl of Eichstätt
    Kirchenrat Leutheuser
    Cardinal Adolf Bertram

    And

    Father Senn, who published these words on the 15th of May, 1934:

    [Adolf Hitler is] the tool of God, called upon to overcome Judaism…

    The tool of God. Quite a ringing endorsement.

    And I’m afraid, Mel, but your pantomime just doesn’t stand up historical reality. Hitler was vehemently anti-atheist:

    ”We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out”.
    – Adolf Hitler, Speech in Berlin, October 24, 1933

    “Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith …we need believing people.
    – Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933, speech made during negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordant

    And once again, if you wish to simply hand-wave and ignore Hitler’s own specific words, we have external, extra-Hitler sources proving you wrong. For example:

    The New York Times Story: “Atheist Hall Converted.”

    “In Freethinkers Hall, which before the Nazi resurgence was the national headquarters of the German Freethinkers League, the Berlin Protestant church authorities have opened a bureau for advice to the public in church matters. Its chief object is to win back former churchgoers and assist those who have not previously belonged to any religious congregation in obtaining church membership. The German Freethinkers League, which was swept away by the national revolution, was the largest of such organizations in Germany. It had about 500,000 members…”
    – The New York Times, May 14, 1933, page 2, on Hitler’s outlawing atheistic andfreethinking groups in the Spring of 1933, after the Enabling Act authorizing Hitler to rule by decree

    Associated Press Story: “Campaign against ‘Godless Movement’”

    “A campaign against the ‘godless movement’ and an appeal for Catholic support were launched by Chancellor Adolf Hitler’s forces.”
    – Associated Press story, February 23, 1933, quoted from Positive Atheism

    And here is an extract from the Catholic Hierarchy of Austria public proclamation titled: “National Socialism Defends Against Atheist Bolshe”

    “We joyfully acknowledge that the National Socialist movement has done and is still doing eminent work in the domain of national and economic construction as well as in the domain of social policy, for the Reich and the German nation… We are also convinced that the activity of the National Socialist movement has averted the danger of an all-destroying atheistic Bolshevism. For the future, the bishops confer their heartiest blessing on this activity, and they will instruct the faithful to this effect. …it is for us a national duty, as Germans, to vote for the German Reich, and we also expect all believing Christians to demonstrate that they know what they owe to their nation.”
    -Catholic Hierarchy of Austria, March 18, 1938

    Historical records… Gotta’ love them, huh?

    • Mel Wild says:

      Wrong, John. Your pantomime is you keep quoting what OTHER people said about Hitler and his early speeches when he was trying to win the hearts of the people. They were duped by his deception. And they were very wrong about him and so are you. I’ve already shown what Hitler himself thought about Christianity in his later writings. He despised it.

      • john zande says:

        “I believe today I am acting in the same way as the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lords work!”
        -Adolf Hitler, speech delivered in 1936.

        “My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow my self to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows . For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.” -Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922

        “Christianity could not content itself with building up its own altar; it was absolutely forced to undertake the destruction of the heathen altars. Only from this fanatical intolerance could its apodictic faith take form; this intolerance is, in fact, its absolute presupposition.” -Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf

      • john zande says:

        Adolf Hitler on Christianity: Quotes from Hitler Expressing Christian Faith

        1. Adolf Hitler: The Nazi Party Represents Positive Christianity
        “We demand freedom for all religious confessions in the state, insofar as they do not endanger its existence or conflict with the customs and moral sentiments of the Germanic race. The party as such represents the standpoint of a positive Christianity, without owing itself to a particular confession….”
        – Article 20 of the program of the German Workers’ Party (later named the National Socialist German Workers’ Party, NSDAP)

        2. Adolf Hitler: I am a Catholic
        I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.
        – Adolf Hitler, to General Gerhard Engel, 1941

        3. Adolf Hitler: Religious Life as the Highest and Most Desirable Ideal
        I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 1

        4. Adolf Hitler: Christianity and the Holy German Reich
        As long as leadership from above was not lacking, the people fulfilled their duty and obligation overwhelmingly. Whether Protestant pastor or Catholic priest, both together and particularly at the first flare, there really existed in both camps but a single holy German Reich, for whose existence and future each man turned to his own heaven.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 3

        5. Adolf Hitler: Significance of the Religion of Love
        The more abstractly correct and hence powerful this idea will be, the more impossible remains its complete fulfillment as long as it continues to depend on human beings… If this were not so, the founders of religion could not be counted among the greatest men of this earth… In its workings, even the religion of love is only the weak reflection of the will of its exalted founder; its significance, however, lies in the direction which it attempted to give to a universal human development of culture, ethics, and morality.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 8

        6. Adolf Hitler: Personification of the Devil
        ….the personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of the Jew.
        – Adolf Hitler (following the position of Martin Luther), Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 11

        7. Adolf Hitler: Christians Should Deal with Atheistic Jews
        And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of his estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary, He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God; because then, as always, they used religion as a means of advancing their commercial interests. But at that time Christ was nailed to the Cross for his attitude towards the Jews; whereas our modern Christians enter into party politics and when elections are being held they debase themselves to beg for Jewish votes. They even enter into political intrigues with the atheistic Jewish parties against the interests of their own Christian nation.
        – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 11

        8. Adolf Hitler: As a Christian, I Feel that My Lord and Savior was a Fighter
        My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. …Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. …
        – Adolf Hitler, speech on April 12, 1922

        9. Adolf Hitler: Fascism is Closer to Christianity than Liberalism or Marxism
        The fact that the Curia is now making its peace with Fascism shows that the Vatican trusts the new political realities far more than did the former liberal democracy with which it could not come to terms. …The fact that the Catholic Church has come to an agreement with Fascist Italy …proves beyond doubt that the Fascist world of ideas is closer to Christianity than those of Jewish liberalism or even atheistic Marxism…
        – Adolf Hitler in an article in the Völkischer Beobachter, February 29, 1929, on the new Lateran Treaty between Mussolini’s fascist government and the Vatican

        10. Adolf Hitler: Compromises with Atheism Destroy Religious, Ethical Values
        By its decision to carry out the political and moral cleansing of our public life, the Government is creating and securing the conditions for a really deep and inner religious life. The advantages for the individual which may be derived from compromises with atheistic organizations do not compare in any way with the consequences which are visible in the destruction of our common religious and ethical values. The national Government sees in both Christian denominations the most important factor for the maintenance of our society. …
        – Adolf Hitler, speech before the Reichstag, March 23, 1933, just before the Enabling Act is passed.

        11. Adolf Hitler: Burn out the Poison of Immorality
        Today Christians … stand at the head of [this country]… I pledge that I never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity .. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit … We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press – in short, we want to burn out thepoison of immoralitywhich has entered into our whole life and culture as a result ofliberal excessduring the past … (few) years.
        – Adolf Hitler, quoted in: The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1 (London, Oxford University Press, 1942), pg. 871-872

        • It is well documented from historical writings, various high ranking Nazi diaries, interviews, etc that Hitler was, yes born into and raised in a “Christian home” but that was in name only….it is well documented and was commonly known that Hitler had great disdain for the Church and the Christian religion. He had no need for the Church…if anything he looked more to pagan religions more like that of the Vikings as well as occultism. He created a state Church which answered to the Führer only—those who would not go along were arrested and sent to the death camps—Dietrich Bonhoeffer was one of the more notable “dissidents”

        • Mel Wild says:

          That’s very true, Julie. As Michael Rissmann points out, Hitler thought of “God” as “the rule of natural law throughout the universe”, and that “his religiosity consisted of an attempt to equate predestination with the regularities established by science”.

          He was no Christian. He only pretended to be one to gain public sentiment.

        • Indeed Mel and I’ve just replied again to John with a further explanation—but even the facts of history to John, this teacher’s obviously failed student, will not be seen as fact for fact.

        • john zande says:

          You’ve got your facts simply wrong, Julie.

          The “work” Mel is quote mining from is a fraud.

          Adolf Hitler on God: Quotes from Adolf Hitler Expressing Belief & Faith in God

          1. Adolf Hitler: Acting According to God’s Will
          I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.
          – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 2

          2. Adolf Hitler: Thanking God
          Even today I am not ashamed to say that, overpowered by stormy enthusiasm, I fell down on my knees and thanked Heaven from an overflowing heart for granting me the good fortune of being permitted to live at this time.
          – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 5

          3. Adolf Hitler: Deutschland Über Alles
          I had so often sung ‘Deutschland über Alles’ and shouted ‘Heil’ at the top of my lungs, that it seemed to me almost a belated act of grace to be allowed to stand as a witness in the divine court of the eternal judge and proclaim the sincerity of this conviction.
          – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 5

          4. Adolf Hitler: God’s Grace Smiles
          Once again the songs of the fatherland roared to the heavens along the endless marching columns, and for the last time the Lord’s grace smiled on His ungrateful children.
          – Adolf Hitler reflecting on World War I, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 7

          5. Adolf Hitler: Fulfilling God’s Mission
          What we have to fight for is the necessary security for the existence and increase of our race and people, the subsistence of its children and the maintenance of our racial stock unmixed, the freedom and independence of the Fatherland; so that our people may be enabled to fulfill the mission assigned to it by the Creator.
          – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 8

          6. Adolf Hitler: Fate of God
          But if out of smugness, or even cowardice, this battle is not fought to its end, then take a look at the peoples five hundred years from now. I think you will find but few images of God, unless you want to profane the Almighty.
          – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 10

          7. Adolf Hitler: Sin Against the Will of God
          In short, the results of miscegenation are always the following: (a) The level of the superior race becomes lowered; (b) physical and mental degeneration sets in, thus leading slowly but steadily towards a progressive drying up of the vital sap. The act which brings about such a development is a sin against the will of the Eternal Creator. And as a sin this act will be avenged.
          – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 11

          8. Adolf Hitler: Sacrilege Against God
          Anyone who dares to lay hands on the highest image of the Lord commits sacrilege against the benevolent creator of this miracle and contributes to the expulsion from paradise.
          – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 1

          9. Adolf Hitler: Confidence in God
          Thus inwardly armed with confidence in God and the unshakable stupidity of the voting citizenry, the politicians can begin the fight for the ‘remaking’ of the Reich as they call it.
          – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 1

          10. Adolf Hitler: Gold has Replaced God
          It may be that today gold has become the exclusive ruler of life, but the time will come when man will again bow down before a higher god.
          – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 2

          11. Adolf Hitler: Sin Against the Will of God
          It doesn’t dawn on this depraved bourgeois world that this is positively a sin against all reason; that it is criminal lunacy to keep on drilling a born half-ape until people think they have made a lawyer out of him, while millions of members of the highest culture-race must remain in entirely unworthy positions; that it is a sin against the will of the Eternal Creator if His most gifted beings by the hundreds and hundreds of thousands are allowed to degenerate in the present proletarian morass, while Hottentots and Zulu Kaffirs are trained for intellectual professions.
          – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 2

          12. Adolf Hitler: Creation of God
          That this is possible may not be denied in a world where hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people voluntarily submit to celibacy, obligated and bound by nothing except the injunction of the Church. Should the same renunciation not be possible if this injunction is replaced by the admonition finally to put an end to the constant and continuous original sin of racial poisoning, and to give the Almighty Creator beings such as He Himself created?
          – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 2

          13. Adolf Hitler: Don’t Just Talk About Fulfilling God’s Will
          The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God’s will, and actually fulfill God’s will, and not let God’s word be desecrated. For God’s will gave men their form, their essence and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord’s creation, the divine will.
          – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 10

          14. Adolf Hitler: Doing Justice to God
          To do justice to God and our own conscience, we have turned once more to the German Volk.
          – Adolf Hitler in speech about the need for a moral regeneration of German, February 10, 1933

          15. Adolf Hitler: Going Where God Wills
          I go the way that Providence dictates with the assurance of a sleepwalker.
          – Adolf Hitler, Speech, March 15, 1936, Munich, Germany

          16. Adolf Hitler: May God Bless Us
          May divine providence bless us with enough courage and enough determination to perceive within ourselves this holy German space.
          – Adolf Hitler, Speech, March 24, 1933

          17. Adolf Hitler: When We Appear Before God…
          We don’t ask the Almighty, ‘Lord, make us free!” We want to be active, to work, to work together, so that when the hour comes that we appear before the Lord we can say to him: ‘Lord, you see that we have changed.’ The German people is no longer a people of dishonor and shame, of self-destructiveness and cowardice. No, Lord, the German people is once more strong in spirit, strong in determination, strong in the willingness to bear every sacrifice. Lord, now bless our battle and our freedom, and therefore our German people and fatherland.
          – Adolf Hitler, Prayer, May 1, 1933

          18. Adolf Hitler: Fighting for the Lord’s Work
          I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord’s work.
          – Adolf Hitler, Speech, Reichstag, 1936

          19. Adolf Hitler in Conversation with Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber
          The Catholic Church should not deceive herself: if National Socialism does not succeed in defeating Bolshevism, then Church and Christianity in Europe too are finished. Bolshevism is the mortal enemy of the Church as much as of Fascism. …Man cannot exist without belief in God. The soldier who for three and four days lies under intense bombardment needs a religious prop.
          – Adolf Hitler in conversation with Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber of Bavaria, November 4, 1936

        • No John, no I don’t and it is not kind to rile the history teacher this early on this side of the pond….

          Hitler would use the right words with the right people in order to justify his actions.
          This is proven time and time again as each statement was to be followed by a counter action.

          He despised the Catholic Church, in part because they could not be manipulated as easily as the German Lutheran Church a their “headquarters” was in Rome and they answered not to the state but the the Pope, and as he and his NSDAP party gained the full percentage needed in parliament and manipulated old General Hindenburg to turn over / ‘relinquish’ full power, making him the German Chancellor, he began to systematically dismantle the church—firstly by removing all religious symbols from schools—all crucifixes in classrooms were replaced with his picture. All teachers both Catholic and Jewish were dismissed and those who remained were given the choice to be members of the “state” church as well as joining the Nazi party or face dismissal, or eventually worse.
          Those educators and business owners who refused to become Nazi party members we’re at first harassed and eventually “removed”

          The Nazi party had become The Religion of Germany.

          He would often reference “a great or grand Creator” and even during the several failed assassination attempts tipped his hat to “providence” for sparing his life and therefore, in his mind, justified, even more so, the spurring on of his continued “work”—ie skewed madness– for the true Germanic race….

          Yet that notion of ‘providence’ and of a ‘great creator’ had become grossly screwed throughout his tenure as Führer as his spiritual interests were buried deeply in the notion of the gods of the early Germanic people and the Norse religion and as I said earlier, with a keen interest in the Occult.

          The whole spectacle of his Nuremberg rally took on all the trappings of a cult and cult following as he had it orchestrated to be just that with him as Cult leader—a man who saw himself as the savior of the true and pure Germanic race—despite his own mixed heritage…..

          John I’ve studied and researched and read too much over these many years about this very notion to believe anything to the contrary as there is a systematic and distinct pattern of the descent Hitler spiraling into—as his “spirituality” morphed and morphed— as his power grew so did his madness ,coupled by ego was enraged with power…

        • john zande says:

          I could post pro-Christian sentiments from Hitler, and those around him, all day.

          Unless you can present a single contradictory piece of evidence, I think we can just say, Hitler was a Christian, thought himself a very, very good Christian, and church leaders agreed.

          Kirchenrat Julius Leutheuser, addressing German Christians in Saalfeld, August 30, 1933:

          The word “German” is God’s Word! Whosoever understands this is released from all theological conflicts. This is German: return home to Germany and leave behind egoism and your feelings of abandonment. …Christ has come to us through the person of Adolf Hitler. …Hitler has taken root in us; through his strength, through his honesty, his faith and his idealism we have found our way to paradise.

          Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber, meeting of Bavarian bishops on his meeting with Adolf Hitler, December 13, 1936:

          “The Führer commands the diplomatic and social forms better than a born sovereign. …Without a doubt the chancellor lives in faith in God. He recognizes Christianity as the foundation of Western culture. …Not as clear is his conception of the Catholic Church as a God-established institution.” As a result of this report, the conference votes to “once again affirm our loyal and positive attitude, demanded by the fourth commandment, toward today’s form of government and the Führer.” They assure the Führer they will provide him “all available moral resources his world-historical struggle aimed at repelling Bolshevism.”

        • John I have an entire wall of book cases chocked full of such books—ranging from Churchill, the allied forces, Hitler, Stalin, Bonhoeffer, FDR on and on they go but as I have yet to finish my first cup of coffee this morning, I don’t much want to start digging, copying and reciting references for each and every reason I just posted.
          It might behoove you John to also realize that there were those Catholic clergy who did remain loyal to the Führer rather than to the Pope and there were even several who left the priesthood to advance in ranks in Hitler’s leadership.
          As human beings are a funny lot—imperfect and at times some are easily swayed by power and the trappings of this earth…put a charismatic figure in front of someone who already has a skewed thought process and you have a recipe for trouble…
          And as I said previously throughout the 30’s and into the 40’s until his death, Hitler’s vision of what was godlike morphed as he himself became his own god—

          It irks me to no end how this latest generation throws Hitler around, as I told Wally, like a bocce ball without fully understanding the man or who and what he had become….
          The Book Thieves by Anders Rydell is a good book that focuses on the Nazi’s plundering of books…not so much the art which is more obvious and more noted…but rather their desire to rid people of their written word…it gives a great insight into the sad and twisted thought process of those high ranking Nazi’s…

          Now, I’ve got to grab one more cup of coffee before showering and heading to work in our family business as Christmas is a busy time…..

        • john zande says:

          Oh, don’t get me wrong. I’m not trying to argue Hitler (a Christian), and the Nazi’s (Christians, who had “God is With Us” belt buckles) acted primarily in the “name” of Christianity. Not principally, although they did prop-up their regime, and legitimised it, with Christianity.

          So far, you haven’t actually presented any contradictory evidence… Just your opinions concerning how Hitler and the Nazi’s weren’t acting in a manner that you think “Christian,” which is fair enough, but it’s NOT an historical argument.

          The history is settled on this matter.

        • John you just need to read more and argue less

        • john zande says:

          Be sure to get back to me when you have some evidence, and not just an opinion.

          It’s much like the KKK, whom I’m sure you don’t consider acting a “Christian manner”, but who are, most certainly Christians. The byline on the KKK.com website reads:

          Bringing a Message of Hope and Deliverance to White Christian America!

          The difference here is simply your opinion versus there’s.

        • John I could spout a bunch of screwed crap too to justify just about anything — doesn’t make it anymore true than the real truth— people have been twisting Gods’ words since the dawn of time to validate their own agendas — doesn’t make it any more His or the man in the moon— ‘in the name of God’ battle cry
          Is probably the most maligned phrase throughout history— mans justification of man is all such is—
          Be it nazi or clan, throwing righteousness into the equation always made evil much more palatable

        • john zande says:

          On this we agree.

          Religion has been a wonderful tool for the depraved. Religious boundaries have proven monstrously efficient mechanisms separating the pure and virtuous ‘us’ from the impure and evil ‘them’, and in the appropriate setting that is all the rationale a sufficiently motivated man needs to perform unthinkable violence. Indeed, in Christian thought, as in many other religious expressions, two types of war have been seen as entirely permissible: the ‘holy war’, and the ‘just war’, with the latter drawing its authority from religious moral drivers that both encourage and sanction abhorrent, murderous acts, enslavement, and the rape of children. With religious justification men excuse themselves from all matters of common decency, and with wild abandon they are empowered to rejoice in their own perverted inhumanity. Celebrating the aftermath of the storming of Jerusalem by the Crusaders in 1099, Cleric Raymond of Aguilers gleefully remarked:

          “In the temple of Solomon, one rode in blood up to the knees and even to the horses’ bridles, by the just and marvellous judgment of God.”

          So again, the only difference between you and, say, Hitler or Raymond of Aguilers, is your opinion.

        • Not opinion-years of study —Jesus Christ remains lord despite those who have sought to make him small—fitting him into their own box of agendas — got to go face the day now

        • john zande says:

          Your opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.

          Have a great day.

        • Oh and I think it’s called historic observation— you enjoy this December day as well- crisp and cool here—-

        • Wally Fry says:

          John. hello

          “Oh, don’t get me wrong. I’m not trying to argue Hitler (a Christian),”

          Huh? What? Yes, you are absolutely making that argument. Are you lying or simply so unaware of the nonsense you spew that you lose track of it?

          But, hey whatever, interesting, and all that. Maybe you can answer the question Ark bailed out on John.

          Why do you support the execution of the religions and intellectuals, and the forced relocation of city dwellers to collective farms to die?

        • john zande says:

          Not odd at all… Much like the KKK are Christian, it’s all a matter of opinion. Just like Hitler, the KKK, or Cleric Raymond of Aguilers, you pick and choose what you want your flavour of Christianity to be too, Wally.

        • Wally Fry says:

          So no answer? Interesting

        • john zande says:

          You were serious? Oh, Okay…

          Why do you support the execution of the religions and intellectuals, and the forced relocation of city dwellers to collective farms to die?

          Could you point me to where I said I did?

        • Wally Fry says:

          Hey, sorry. You confused me. You being the smartest man on the planet made me think you had things nailed. Many professing godlessness and the eradication of all things of religious have proposed things like that. I just assume you must all thing=k alike. I mean, that’s the standard you apply in your own railings against Christians. You mean to tell me that an entire world view is not condemned by the abuses of some few who lay a claim(no matter how nebulous) on it? Oopsy. I must have totally misunderstood the argument you have repeated over and over for years. My bad! LOL.

        • john zande says:

          You been drinking? You’re not making any sense at all.

          But I can prove my earlier statement in a heartbeat.

          For arguments sake, let us assume ISIS succeeded in creating a lasting caliphate. There they grew, built a sizable and capable expeditionary army, and then took off across the oceans and landed on the coast of the US. Would you, Wally, agree with a church sanctioned ‘holy war,’ a ‘just war,’ to repel them, or would you follow Jesus and not resist?

        • Wally Fry says:

          John. It’s amazing how you lay claim to being the smartest guy around when you are the one firing questions, yet become totally addled and seem to no longer be able to read when YOU are asked one. Typical. Atheist attack dogs don’t answer questions, they only ask. No problem here. Peace out.

        • john zande says:

          As previously said…

          You were serious? Oh, Okay…

          Why do you support the execution of the religions and intellectuals, and the forced relocation of city dwellers to collective farms to die?

          Could you point me to where I said I did?

        • Wally Fry says:

          Can you point to where any Christian you are speaking to, or have spoken to in this thread support any of the crimes you have waved in their faces as being committed by a man who may or may not have a real connection to being Christian? Answer: You cannot. Therefore using YOUR OWN STANDARD of proof I ask you:

          Why do you support the execution of the religions and intellectuals, and the forced relocation of city dwellers to collective farms to die?

          Clearly you do. This is my opinion, and BY YOUR OWN STANDARD OF PROOF, this is sufficient grounds on which to frame this accusation framed as a question.

          Why do you support the execution of the religions and intellectuals, and the forced relocation of city dwellers to collective farms to die?

          Your answer, John?

        • john zande says:

          Come back when you’re sober, wally.

        • Wally Fry says:

          Ah..so no answer. Interesting. Obviously, your declining to answer means I am correct, using YOUR OWN STANDARD OF PROOF.

          Dontcha hate it when your own words circle around and bit you in the butt? LOL

        • john zande says:

          What was the question?

        • Wally Fry says:

          Ba ha ha ha ha ha!!! Have a nice day!!!

        • john zande says:

          You were serious? Oh, Okay…

          Why do you support the execution of the religions and intellectuals, and the forced relocation of city dwellers to collective farms to die?

          Could you point me to where I said I did?

        • Wally Fry says:

          John. You simply aren’t doing this correctly. If you repeat that a few more times, and use some bold font, and blockquotes, I would probably renounce my faith in the face of you withering arguments.

          Have a nice day!!!

        • john zande says:

          No, please, do point me to where I have said this, and then we can go from there.

          I look forward to your answer….

        • Wally Fry says:

          To quote John Branyan:

          “Whooooooooooooosh!”

          Have a nice day, really.

        • john zande says:

          Ah, so you can’t.

          OK.

        • Mel Wild says:

          The history is settled on this matter.

          How very dogmatic of you. Spoken like a hardcore anti-theist Fundamentalist. I don’t think it’s as settled as you think. You say you’re not defending Hitler but you sound like a closet Neo-Nazi. More likely, you’re only showing that you’re willing to believe anything anti-Christian and happily parrot pro-Hitler propaganda to attack Christianity. But Hitler’s actions told a completely different story. The man was an evil anti-Christ monster, acting completely contrary to Christ’s teachings, killing the real Christians (like Bonhoeffer) and using religion as a phony pretext to win the hearts of Christian Germany and Europe. They were all MANIPULATED, John. Wake up. It was all lies. Plain and simple. Hitler was a master at propaganda and manipulation of the masses. Just like he lied through his teeth about peace with Europe before the blitzkrieg, and peace with Russia before he invaded. The fact that you believe his propaganda, in spite of the evidence that matters, says a lot about you. It’s actually pretty disturbing.

          And I noticed you pounced on Table Talk, but what about Michael Rissmann? His extensive research found that Hitler thought of “God” as “the rule of natural law throughout the universe”, and that “his [Hitler’s] religiosity consisted of an attempt to equate predestination with the regularities established by science”. This is hardly orthodox Christian doctrine!
          Hitler on one occasion told those gathered in the Bunker that as a schoolboy he had already “seen through the lying fairy tales of a church with two gods”. (Michael Rissmann, Hitlers Gott: Vorsehungsglaube und Sendungsbewusstsein des deutschen Diktators, Zürich, Pendo, 2001.)

          At best, Hitler (like Stalin) was a Christian deconvert who created his own religion called Nazi Aryanism. But he was no Christian.

        • john zande says:

          The man was an evil anti-Christ monster, acting completely contrary to Christ’s teachings

          Father Senn, writing in a Catholic publication, May 15, 1934:

          [Adolf Hitler is] the tool of God

          You see, it’s all a matter of opinion.

          Michael Rissmann? I’ve never even heard of the man, and I can’t find any academic credentials for him. That being said, from what you’ve posted here, he’s simply presenting his opinions, not actually backed by anything. You’re quoting HIM, not Hitler.

          And suit yourself, Mel. Present a known FRAUDULENT WORK as “fact.”

          It is you, Mel, who has to sleep with yourself at night, always terrified one of your duped followers might just do a little personal investigation into the “facts” you present… only to discover you’ve been lying to them.

        • john zande says:

          Opinion:

          Kirchenrat Julius Leutheuser, addressing German Christians in Saalfeld, August 30, 1933:

          The word “German” is God’s Word! Whosoever understands this is released from all theological conflicts. This is German: return home to Germany and leave behind egoism and your feelings of abandonment. …Christ has come to us through the person of Adolf Hitler.

        • john zande says:

          Opinion:

          Evangelicals supporting a child molester (a man banned from malls for preying on little children) in an election.

          Are you all being “Christ-like” in this instance?

        • Wally Fry says:

          Darn, John is confused again. Or lying. Hard to tell. Obviously enough “evangelicals” didn’t do as you said, for that fellow didn’t get elected. Seems at the same time your own words were biting you in the butt, that your own broad brush was smacking you in the head!

          Have a nice day!

        • john zande says:

          Wally, if you have a point to make, then please make it. This really is quite boring. You are really quite boring. No offense.

        • john zande says:

          Oh, wait… are you seriously trying to argue Evangelicals didn’t support, en mass, a man so vile he was banned from malls for preying on little children?

          Really?

        • Wally Fry says:

          Ugh…yeah shame on me for getting sucked into your rabbit trail. Shame on me. Try talking to people as people, John. But then again that is exactly your goal isn’t it?

          I assume then by not answering my question you do support the execution of the religious and intellectuals, and the forced relocation of city dwellers to the county.

          Thank goodness you live on another continent!

          I’m not bored any more, so I have no further need for you.

          When you decide to say something besides your typical cut and paste, I will likely see it. I will be patient. Reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalll patient I suspect.

          Good bye John.

        • john zande says:

          80% of white voters who self-identified as born-again or evangelical Christians voted for Moore. 18% voted for Jones, while 2% chose to write in a candidate.

          80% voted for a man so vile he was banned from malls for preying on little children.

          80%.

          Now, what was your point, Wally?

        • john zande says:

          Just for the record:

          In the election, 80% of white voters who self-identified as born-again or evangelical Christians voted for Moore. 18% voted for Jones, while 2% chose to write in a candidate.

          80% voted for a man so vile he was banned from malls for preying on little children.

          80%.

          Let that sink in before you reply.

        • john zande says:

          Opinion:

          Celebrating the aftermath of the storming of Jerusalem by the Crusaders in 1099, Cleric Raymond of Aguilers gleefully remarked:

          “In the temple of Solomon, one rode in blood up to the knees and even to the horses’ bridles, by the just and marvellous judgment of God.”

          Was the good cleric being “Christ-like” in this instance?

        • Mel Wild says:

          John, if you believe this Nazi propaganda, you are a bigger fool than all of 1930’s Europe. Hitler was no Christian! Dawkins had to admit this in his book (God Delusion, p.309), even though he could not bring himself to link Hitler’s anti-religious scientism with his atheism.

          But here’s the real Hitler:

          Michael Rissmann records that Hitler thought of “God” as “the rule of natural law throughout the universe”, and that “his [Hitler’s] religiosity consisted of an attempt to equate predestination with the regularities established by science”. This is hardly orthodox Christian doctrine!

          Rissmann also relates how Hitler on one occasion told those gathered in the Bunker that as a schoolboy he had already “seen through the lying fairy tales of a church with two gods”.
          (Michael Rissmann, Hitlers Gott: Vorsehungsglaube und Sendungsbewusstsein des deutschen Diktators, Zürich, Pendo, 2001.)

          Furthermore, Hitler expected Christianity to shrivel before the inexorable advance of science. In Table Talk he is reported as saying: “When understanding of the universe has become widespread… then the Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.”

          Hitler’s view of Christianity was very clear: “The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.”

          For Hitler, Christianity was “the heaviest blow that ever struck humanity”; it was “the first creed in the world to exterminate its adversaries in the name of love. Its keynote is intolerance.”
          (Hitler’s Table Talk, stenographic notes of Hitler’s private conversations, London, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1953.)

          He sounds a lot like an anti-theist!

        • john zande says:

          Hitler’s table talk… Perhaps you should look up the controversies surrounding this supposed “work” Mel. It is an EDITED FRAUD… a mostly bogus work with deliberately faulty translations, inserted words, invented text, interpolations, no source material, recollections that are simply false, and full of “blatant distortions.”

          For example, this here is a straight out lie, a forgery, an interpolation. It was simply made up:

          “Science cannot lie, for it’s always striving, according to the momentary state of knowledge, to deduce what is true. When it makes a mistake, it does so in good faith. It’s Christianity that’s the liar.”

          And this… simply false, an invention of the so-called ‘editor’ :

          “Our epoch will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.”

          Virtually every supposed anti-Christian thought “attributed” to Hitler in this shoddy work is either >deliberately mistranslated or faked. For goodness sake, Trevor-Roper, the ‘editor’ you’re drawing most of your ‘quotes’ from was a central figure in the “Hitler Diaries” hoax. In fact, he’s been involved in hoax after hoax after hoax concerning Hitler and the Nazi’s.

          You see, this is the problem with Fundamentalist apologists like you, Mel. You don’t give a damn about the truth. You latch onto something which you THINK confirms a position you desperately want to be true, something that fits your narrative, and then you present it as fact without a thought to verification, to understanding what, exactly, is being said.

          It’s pathetic. It’s dishonest. It’s lying. It’s a deliberate deception to sell a pantomime.

      • mrsmcmommy says:

        Hitler never lied, Mel.
        He murdered people, but you can take everything he said about God at face value. (Just ask JZ. He said “Hitler thought himself a very good Christian” so he can read a dead guy’s mind! I know because you can take everything JZ says at face value, too. Lol!)

        • mrsmcmommy says:

          But, to be fair, JZ wrote “I could post pro-Hitler sentiments from Hitler, and those around him, all day” and that part is true. He doesn’t mean he can post NEW quotes all day. But he definitely can share the same dozen over and over and over and over.

          No one is as good at copying-and-pasting chunks of text as Zande.

        • Hitler was no Christian— for to say such things would and could, in his mind, put a more convincing tone to his quest … more of a plausibility— it took those who knew better to stand up against such — the Church of Spies by Mark Riesling is a good place to start

        • mrsmcmommy says:

          I agree, Julie. 🙂 I just have some history with JZ, and I couldn’t help noticing he’s up to the same old tricks.

          He’s not allowed to copy-and-paste the same comment over and over on my dad’s blog because we want other readers to be able to see how insane he is, without having to wade through so much text. We let him say stupid things once and only once.

        • Ahhh- sighs of relief —I think we call that redundancy 🤗

        • Mel Wild says:

          You mean like Hitler never lied? That sounds like a good meme. 🙂

        • Mel Wild says:

          Right, Hitler never lied. And they call us delusional! That explains a lot about JohnZ.

  10. This was well presented, Mel.

    Atheists often work so hard trying to prove Christians are evil, as vile as Hitler even. The problem being, people in general are pretty vile. It’s not the Christian part that makes us so unpleasant, that’s the human part. That’s a harsh truth to confront, to accept. Everybody’s looking for some excuse, something or someone else to blame that truth on. Confronting the reality of who we are as human beings is hard, it’s scary, and it leaves us kind of helpless and perhaps a bit crazy, too. Let’s just blame the God who allegedly doesn’t exist and the peace loving Jesus whom we as a people falsely accused and outright murdered? R-i-g-h-t, like that makes any sense at all.

    • Mel Wild says:

      Atheists often work so hard trying to prove Christians are evil, as vile as Hitler even. The problem being, people in general are pretty vile.

      Yeah, I told my wife about my conversation with atheists where they’re trying to pin evil on Christianity because of history and she said it’s actually a better comparison to say that men are the problem. 🙂 After all, about 99.9% of these atrocities were committed by men, whether it be Stalin, Hitler, or the Crusades! Atheist or Christian, religious or not, they were almost all men. It was funny, but shows how you can find blame wherever you want to look. Of course, you’re right, 100% of them were humans.

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